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Transcript of Media Briefing by the Presidency on SCO Council of Foreign Ministers (May 05, 2023)

May 06, 2023

Shri Arindam Bagchi, Official Spokesperson: A very good evening to all of you. Thank you for joining us here in Goa. We have just concluded meeting of the Council of Foreign Ministers of the SCO, which was chaired by Honorable External Affairs Minister. We are extremely privileged to have him here in person with us, to give us a sense of the developments and the discussions that have taken place over the last one and a half days. Also joining us on the dais, Shri Vinay Kwatra, Foreign Secretary Sir, Shri Dammu Ravi, Secretary Economic Relations, in the Ministry of External Affairs, Smt. Yojna Patel, Joint Secretary, SCO Division, as well as the National Coordinator for SCO from India. With that Sir, I would request you Sir to perhaps say a few opening remarks and then we can take a few questions.

Dr. S. Jaishankar, External Affairs Minister: Friends from the media, we have just concluded the SCO Council of Foreign Ministers meeting today here in Goa. This was chaired by India for the first time. Foreign Ministers of SCO Member States, the Secretary General of the SCO and Director of SCO RATS took part in the meeting. During the meeting the SCO Foreign Ministers assessed the status of decisions that will be approved at the upcoming SCO Summit in July. The meeting also gave an opportunity to dwell on the state of multilateral cooperation in SCO, to address regional and global issues of interest, talk about the reform and modernization of the organization and assess the progress of admitting Iran and Belarus to SCO as new Member States. As you are all aware Prime Minister Modi had articulated India's priorities for the SCO Chair with the theme of towards a ‘SECURE’ SCO. The acronym ‘SECURE’ was given by Prime Minister, because it lays out the main focus under our ongoing chairship and ‘SECURE’ stands for Security, Economic Development, Connectivity, Unity, Respect for sovereignty and territorial integrity and Environmental Protection. I would also like to inform you that under our ongoing Presidency, we have successfully hosted more than 100 meetings and events so far, including 15 Ministerial levels or Head of agency meetings. Many of the socio-cultural events hosted by India were the first of its kind in the framework of the SCO. The designation of Varanasi, Kashi as the first ever SCO cultural and tourist capital for 2022-23, I think deserves a special mention. It was our endeavor to create new verticals of cooperation in SCO and as an example I can cite the field of startups and innovation, traditional medicine, science and technology, empowering youth and reviving the Buddhist Heritage amongst the SCO Member States. The work to implement these verticals is already underway and it is being spearheaded by India.

We are also committed to strengthening and further deepening the cooperation within the framework of SCO and many of our initiatives and steps were in that direction. We have opened up new areas of cooperation and intensified engagement among Member States. We hope to continue the momentum of our interaction and we are obviously looking forward to the Summit in July.

In the course of these two days, I also held fruitful bilateral interactions with my counterparts from Russia, China, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan. All Ministers reaffirmed their support to India as the Chair of SCO and expressed their appreciation for the contribution of India to that organization. I also met the Secretary General of the SCO and discussed the diversification and the deepening of SCO agenda. As regards the bilateral relationships, let me start with Russia. FM Lavrov and I noted the progress that has been made in our economic cooperation. We exchanged views on number of regional and global developments. Since the G20 meetings are ongoing and there is a BRICS Foreign Ministers Meeting which is coming up soon, these two were also the subject of our discussion. Where Foreign Minister Qin Gang of China is concerned, much of our attention, I think predictably went to the disengagement issue in the Western sector. But here again the G20 and BRICS featured in the talks because China is a member of both groupings. With Minister Saidov of Uzbekistan it was a warm first meeting. We took stock of our bilateral ties and agreed to have another conversation soon. This was also the case with Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Nurtleu of Kazakhstan. With my Tajik and Kyrgyz counterparts Foreign Ministers, Sirojiddin and Kulubaev, now they are long-standing friends with whom we have a rolling, ongoing conversation and.... some of the subjects which came up in the meeting with them were overlapping with those of the others in Central Asia, they included connectivity, counter-terrorism, health, trade and energy. With all the Central Asian Ministers we agreed that the India Central Asia format meetings in different domains should take place at an early date. So the overall sense that I would like to share with you is that of a productive SCO Council of Foreign Ministers meeting. I think it was useful in preparing the ground for the summit. So those are some opening thoughts and I would be delighted to take questions.

Shri Arindam Bagchi, Official Spokesperson: Thank you, Sir. Before I take the questions, ground rules please. Please introduce yourself and the organization you represent. We’ll also not be able to accommodate more than one question, even that may be difficult. Let me start. Pranay, can I start with you?

Pranaya Upadhayay: Sir Pranaya Upadhayay, ABP News se. Sir, mera sawal is chiz ko lekar hai ki SCO ki Videsh Mantrion ki baithak ke liye Pakistan ke Videsh Mantri, Bilawal Bhutto, aaye the. Bharat me bahut lambe samay bad kisi Pakistani Videsh Mantri ki ye yatra hui thi, lekin apne bhashan me unhone CPEC ka zikr kiya. Aaj unhone kaha Jammu Kashmir ko lekar ke Bharat G20 me adiyal ravaiyya dikha raha hai wahan par aayojan ko karke, yahan ki soil pe. To aapne is yatra ko kaise liya, aur kya apko lagta hai ke is yatra se, jis tarah se unhone commitment dikhaya SCO ko lekar, bilateral talks ko lekar bhi koi sambhavna ban sakti hai, kyuki ye baatein aise samay me ho rahi hai, jab Bharat me aaj terror attack bhi hua hai.

(Question in Hindi: Approximate translation) Sir, Pranay Upadhayay from ABP News. Sir, my question is regarding the SCO Foreign Ministers meeting, for which Pakistan Foreign Minister, Bilawal Bhutto, had come to India. It’s after a long time that a Pakistan Foreign Minister visited India. In his speech, he spoke about CPEC. He also said that India is showing stubborn attitude regarding Jammu and Kashmir in G20 by organizing events there. So how do you see this visit to India, and do you think with this visit and the commitment they have shown in regards to SCO, that will it open doors for bilateral talks, given that all of this is happening during the time when India suffered another terror attack?

Shri Arindam Bagchi, Official Spokesperson: We’ll take a few questions together. Yeah, go ahead.

Shivangi Thakur: Sir, Hi. This is Shivangi Thakur from Zee News. Aaj hamne dekha kis tarah se SCO summit hua. Lekin iske bad Sir, jo Pakistan ke Videsh Mantri hai unka ek bayan samne aaya hai, aur unhone kaha hai ke aatankvad par Bharat aur Pakistan ko sath milkar, baith kar, batchit karna chahiye kyuki ham bhi isse pidit hai. Aise me jab vo yaha par aaye hai, dvipakshiya varta nahi hui hai, Rajouri me aaj bhi hamare javan shaheed hue hai, to kaise dekhte hai, kyuki vo keh rahe hai ki aatankvad pe ham dono ko milkar kam karna chahiye, lekin kaise karenge jab aap summit me aakar batchit nahi karte.

(Question in Hindi: Approximate translation) Sir, Hi. This is Shivangi Thakur from Zee News. Today, we saw how the SCO summit went. However, post summit, there was a statement from Pakistan Foreign Minister that, on terrorism, India and Pakistan should sit together and conduct talks, as we also are suffering from it. Given that he has come to India and there have been no bilateral talks, and yet again our soldiers have lost their lives in Rajouri; how do you see this? Put it simply, he is saying that both countries should work together against terrorism, but how can it be done when, even after coming for the summit, you won’t talk.

Shri Arindam Bagchi, Official Spokesperson: Sidhant.

Sidhant: Hi, Sir, Sidhant from WION. When it comes to bilateral with the Chinese Foreign Minister, the Chinese readout says that situation at the border is stable. How do you see this divergence in the position? The Chinese side claiming that everything is normal at the border, everything is stable at the border.

Shri Arindam Bagchi, Official Spokesperson: Yeah, ma’am there.

Munizae Jahangir: Hello. My name is Munizae Jahangir. I am from Pakistan, from Aaj TV. My question to you over here is that the Foreign Minister Bilawal Bhutto Zardari made a bold move by coming here, and it is being seen as a breakthrough. He is also being criticized, but how do you, India, see it? Do you see it as a breakthrough and what will be your roadmap in the future to resumption of at least diplomatic ties with Pakistan?

Shri Arindam Bagchi, Official Spokesperson: So four questions, I’ll hand over to you, Sir.

Dr. S. Jaishankar, External Affairs Minister: Dekhiye teen sawal jo hai wo Pakistan par the, ek sawal jo hai wo China par tha. Toh ye teen sawal jo Pakistan wale sawal jo hai, mei ek sath lena chahunga taki, because they are overlapping questions.

(Answered in Hindi: Approximate translation) So, there are three questions related to Pakistan and one about China. So I will first address these three questions together, regarding Pakistan, because they are overlapping questions.

First of all, let me say this. As a Foreign Minister of an SCO Member State, Mr. Bhutto Zardari was treated accordingly. As a promoter, justifier, and I am sorry to say, spokesperson of a terrorism industry, which is the mainstay of Pakistan, his positions were called out and they were countered, including at the SCO meeting itself. So let me come to the specifics. On the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor, the so-called corridor, I think it was made very clear, not once but twice in the SCO meeting, that connectivity is good for progress, but connectivity cannot violate the territorial integrity and sovereignty of states. So this has been our longstanding position. Nobody should have any doubt about it, and I assure you, those who were in the room today had no doubt it, I made sure of that.

Your second question was regarding G20. Now, I don’t think there’s a G20 issue to debate with anybody, certainly not with a country which has nothing to do with the G20. Jammu & Kashmir was, is, will always be a part of India, and the G20 meetings are held in all the Indian states and union territories, so it is completely natural that it is held there.

Regarding your second questions, from what I understood that India and Pakistan should sit together. Victims of terrorism do not sit together with perpetrators of terrorism to discuss terrorism. Victims of terrorism defend themselves, counter acts of terrorism, they call it out, they delegitimize it, and that is exactly what is happening. So to come here and preach these hypocritical words as though we are on the same boat; I mean they are committing acts of terrorism and you know I don't want to jump the gun on what happened today but I think we're all feeling equally outraged. So I think let's be very, very clear on this, you know, on this matter, the terrorism matter, I mean I would say Pakistan's credibility is depleting even faster than its Forex results. So you know let's be clear what this is about.

On your question….is this a break through. Look, he came here as a Member, a Foreign Minister of an SCO Member State, that is part of multilateral diplomacy. Don't... please do not see it as anything more than that, it was not meant as anything more than that, it was not treated as anything more than that and I think nothing that from what he said or what I heard he said deserves for this to be treated more than that.

The China question….Look, my understanding of what the Chinese said, I think they used the word stable if I'm not mistaken. I don't think that's the issue, I think the issue is that there is an abnormal position in the boundary areas…the border areas along the boundary and we had a very frank discussion about it. It's not the first discussion; I had spoken to Foreign Minister Qin Gang on the sidelines of the G20 as well. So we have to take the disengagement process forward and I have made it very clear, frankly publicly as well and you know what I say within the room is not different from what I say outside, which is that India-China relations are not normal and cannot be normal if the peace and tranquility in the border areas is disturbed. You know, I have been very, very clear about it, I've been very consistent about it and I have not changed my position at this meeting either.

Shri Arindam Bagchi, Official Spokesperson: Thank u Sir. Listen, in the interest of efficiency please do not repeat similar questions or try to come back to it, I think. So I’ll take fresh questions on that. Maha, yeah.

Maha Siddiqui: Sir Maha Siddiqui from NDTV. So how does India view being part of an organization which is now largly being viewed as an Anti-West grouping?

Shri Arindam Bagchi, Official Spokesperson: Yeah, Neeraj.

Neeraj: Sir, Neeraj hun News 18 india se. Aapne ye kaha ki G20 se Pakistan ka koi lena dena nahi hai, lekin Bilawal Bhutto ne ye bhi kaha Srinagar mai jo paryatan ke masle par baithak ho rahi hain, waqt par aisa jawab denge ki unko yaad rahega. Is statement ko Bharat kaise dekhta hain?

(Question in Hindi: Approximate translation) Sir, I am Neeraj from News 18 India. You said that Pakistan has no connection with G20. But Bilawal Bhutto has also said that they will respond at the right time to the Tourism meeting being held in Srinagar, in a way that will be remembered. How does India view this statement?

Shri Arindam Bagchi, Official Spokesperson: Dekhiye specific aise question nahi ho payega, already jawab de chuke hain.

(Answer in Hindi: Approximate translation) Look, it won't be possible to have such a specific question, as we have already given the answer.

Dr. S. Jaishankar, External Affairs Minister: Mei iska bhi jawab dunga. Phikar nahi kariye. (Answer in Hindi: Approximate translation) I will give the answer to this too. Don’t worry.

Shri Arindam Bagchi, Official Spokesperson: Yes Sir, please go ahead.

Neeraj: Thank you Sir.

Shri Arindam Bagchi, Official Spokesperson: Yeah. Go ahead.

Speaker:
Thank you. Mitch (inaudible) from Russian TV. Sir, was Ukrainian crisis part of today discussion and did Mr. Lavrov tell you about the recent attack on Kremlin in Moscow and what is your point of view? Thank you.

Rishikesh: Sir, Rishikesh from Press Trust of India. Sir, Pak FM also said that we should not get caught up in weaponizing terrorism for diplomatic points scoring. So what are your views?

Manish Chand: Sir Manish Chand from India Writes Network. Just before his meeting with you, Chinese Foreign Minister was addressing a function in honor of Dr. Kotnis, where he spoke about people-to-people contacts and finding a new path of peaceful coexistence. Did you see any signaling towards, you know some sort of peace move, some sort of restructuring of engagement in the relationship?

Shri Arindam Bagchi, Official Spokesperson: Manish he has answered this question.

Dr. S. Jaishankar, External Affairs Minister: Let me start with the Anti-West….Is SCO perceived as an Anti-Western grouping. Look, how people perceive it, is something I cannot answer for. What I can say is it is a grouping where membership serves India's interests, India has a multi-directional foreign policy with many partners and it's not always necessary or sometimes possible that all partners get along with other partners. So this is characteristic of the foreign policy in today's very fluid and you know I would say multipolar and sometimes uncertain volatile world. So we are members of SCO because it serves our interests, it is a major Eurasian grouping. There are, you know, other members of this grouping…are countries with whom we have a strong bilateral relationships, obviously not all. And I think really that's how I would present our participation.

I will jump that question…come to the Ukraine question, because I want to take the Pakistan related questions together. On the Ukraine, I wouldn't say there was focused discussion on developments in Ukraine including recent developments, there were references to it. There were some references to it in the SCO formal session. There was some reference to it in the informal meeting that we had of the Foreign Ministers yesterday. So I think that would be really the right characterization of what happened in the room.

Regarding the Kotnis, Dr. Kotnis question and people to people. Look, again you know I think Arindam made the point, I mean I've answered this in a way that relations today are not normal. So to suggest somehow that they are and everything else can continue and while the relevant issues, the central problems are not being effectively addressed; I think it won't wash, that there are issues we need to discuss, I think we both countries need to be clear about it. Now it may be the endeavor or expectation to try and project exactly the kind of picture which you would suggest. But I would not go along with it, I certainly will not play along with it.

Then on the, jo aapka sawal jo tha, dekhiye I said unka koi G20 se lena dena nahi hain. I will also say unka koi Srinagar se bhi lena dena nahi hain.

(Answer in Hindi: Approximate translation) Then, regarding your question, you see, I said that they have no connection with G20, and I will also say that they have no connection with Srinagar.

There is only one issue to discuss on Kashmir which is when does Pakistan vacate its illegal occupation of Pakistan occupied Kashmir, that is the only issue up for discussion.

On the weaponization….you know, it's a very interesting statement because it unconsciously reveals a mindset. What does weaponizing something mean? It means that the activity is legitimate and somebody is weaponizing it. So you say, you’re weaponizing trade, you’re weaponizing technology. Somebody says you’re weaponizing terrorism, that means they think terrorism is legitimate, that we should not weaponize it, that it’s normal. Now, what are we doing? We are countering ourselves, countering terrorism. We are defending ourselves, we are calling it out, we are exposing it, and some of it is what you saw today. So you know, to me, we are not scoring diplomatic points, we’re politically, diplomatically exposing Pakistan before the world, and as a victim of terrorism, I am completely entitled to do so. I mean, what do you mean we should not weaponize terrorism. That means as a victim, I am supposed to put up with it? So you not only commit terrorism but you say, oh please, do not even speak about it. I mean come on. So to me that sentence, it spoke so much about a mindset of that country…that you can all see for yourself.

Shri Arindam Bagchi, Official Spokesperson:
Thank you Sir. We’ll take a few more questions, yeah.

Vijay Laxmi: Sir, Vijay Laxmi hu, India TV se. Sir, Pakistan ke Videsh Mantri ne ye bhi kaha ke peace is our destiny and we should not be held hostage to our history, ham history khud create karenge, lekin aaj hi Rajouri me hamla hota hai, hamare kai javan shaheed hote hai, kuch dino pehle Poonch me bhi hamla hua. Lekin yaha par Pakistan ka dohra charitra, halaki Angrezi me aap javab de chuke hai iska, Hindi me chahungi. Kya Pakistan ka dohra charitr aisi se jag zahir hota hai.

(Question in Hindi: Approximate translation) Sir, Vijay Laxmi from India TV. Sir, Pakistan Foreign Minister said that peace is our destiny and we should not be held hostage to our history, we will create our own history. However, today Rajouri suffered an attack, and many Indian soldiers lost their lives. Also, few days back an attack took place in Poonch. This shows two-face characteristic of Pakistan. Although you have responded to this in English, I would request a response in Hindi. Does this reveal Pakistan’s two-face behavior to the world?

Shri Arindam Bagchi, Official Spokesperson: This topic has already been discussed three times.

Dr. S. Jaishankar, External Affairs Minister: Do you even need proof of that?

Runjhun Sharma: Runjhun Sharma, RT. There are speculations on SCO becoming a military alliance. How does India see the role of SCO particularly in the security area?

Sandeep Dikshit: Sir, I am Sandeep Dikshit with the Tribune. Mr. Jaishankar spoke about modernization and reform of SCO. Can you please dwell a little more on it?

Shri Arindam Bagchi, Official Spokesperson: Last question there at the back?

Vishal Pandey: Sir, mai Vishal Pandey hu Zee News se. Aapne Pakistan ko aatankvad ke mudde par jab se aaina dikhaya hai, Bilawal Bhutto aaj kafi pareshan nazar aaye. Vo bar, bar 5 August 2019 ka zikr kar rahe hai. 5 August vo tarik hai jab Dhara 370 hati thi. Kaise javab dena chahenge, kya us dukh ko abhi vo bhul nahi pa rahe hai, Dhara 370 jab se hati hai?

(Question in Hindi: Approximate translation) Sir, I am Vishal Pandey from Zee News. Sir, since you have exposed Pakistan on the issue of terrorism, Mr. Bilawal Bhutto seemed worried today. He was constantly speaking about 5 August 2019. 5 August 2019 is the date when India revoked Article 370. How would you want to respond to that? Are they not able to digest the fact that Article 370 has been revoked?

Shri Arindam Bagchi, Official Spokesperson: Okay, I think we’ll close with that, Sir. I think questions are getting very similar. I will hand over the… no, Amit, I don’t have time, unless you have something very specifically different. No, sorry, I’ve taken lots of questions, only one last.

Amit Kaushik: Sir, mai Amit hu Times Now Navbharat se. Unhone ek bat kahi ke sports ko aur rajneeti ko alag rakhni chahiye aur vo chahte hain ke sports ko bandhak na banaya jaye. Unhone ye bhi aarop lagaya ke blind…

(Question in Hindi: Approximate translation) Sir, I am Amit from Times Now Navbharat. He also said that we should keep sports and politics separate, and he that he wishes that sports is not held hostage to it. He also alleged that the blind…

Shri Arindam Bagchi, Official Spokesperson: Should I say something? This interview is about Sir’s comments. What they said and how we responded, it cannot happen this way. Sorry, I’ll close it now. Sir, the floor is yours.

Dr. S. Jaishankar, External Affairs Minister:
Look, first question, peace is destiny…you asked it, right? See…whether peace is destiny or not, I do not know. Terrorism cannot be destiny. A country, which does terrorism, cannot talk about peace in the same breath.

To sath mane aatankvad bhi kare aur shanti ki bat bhi kare, ye thodi chalega. To isiliye maine kaha ke unki credibility aap dekhiye, vo to kuch bhi keh sakte hai. Aur us desh ka itihas hai ismei, ye koi nai bat nahi. To aaj…jo kehte haina…jo purana playbook jo hai, wo purana playbook ek bar aur chal rha tha location alag tha Goa tha playbook wahi tha, purana tha.

(Answered in Hindi: Approximate translation) So they want to encourage terrorism and simultaneously talk about peace, that’s not how it goes. That’s why I said, you look at their credibility, they can say whatever makes sense to them. And that country has history in this…this is not something new. So today….as the phrase goes…the old playbook, that old playbook was being played once again, location was different this time, it was Goa….but the playbook was same, old.

On the SCO…Look SCO is a, I would say, a regional organization with very specific political objectives and economic, you can say, economic, technology, people to people…that’s the kind of agenda and mandate that it has. I really do not see it going in the direction which you suggested. On the modernization and reform of SCO…this was something, which was discussed at the previous summit. The members of SCO are growing. The organization is now quite a few years old. The Dialogue Partners are growing, the Observers are growing. So the feeling was that we have to… in fact, one of the issues is also language. That SCO language, because of its original composition, was Russian and Chinese. So today, a country like India raised this issue specifically that we also need to make English one of the working languages of the SCO.

So there are a number of issues, issues of finance, issues of organization, of its working, of its membership. So the overall sense was that we need to sit and discuss it. I think one meeting has been held is Kazakhstan in this regard. We will be holding further meetings and then obviously reporting up to the summit.

Your question regarding Article 370, I am replying to you in English, because I have a phrase, which is wake up and smell the coffee. 370 is history, sooner people realize it, the better.

The last question…sports and terrorism. See, again, this is like you’re trying to normalize terrorism. Terrorism happens so what, it’s not a big deal. There are reasons why terrorism happens. There are really excuses for it. Therefore, let us carry on with the rest of life. I am sorry. This India will not accept that anymore. I mean if terrorism happens, terrorism will be countered. As I said, from the Foreign Ministry side certainly, our job is to expose it, to call it out, to delegitimize it, and we will be unrelenting in that regard and no attempt to cover it up by suggesting we do other things and we can carry on with issues where clearly they are feeling the pinch, I am sorry, that won’t work.

Shri Arindam Bagchi, Official Spokesperson: Thank you very much, Sir. My thanks also to Foreign Secretary Sir, Vinay Kwatra, Secretary of Economic Relaions, Shri Dammu Ravi, as well as Smt. Yojna Patel, Joint Secretary SCO, for being here today. Thank you all for joining us for the special media briefing. Good evening.

Dr. S. Jaishankar, External Affairs Minister: Thank you.

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